Has Evan Mobley evolved into the best overall player on the Cavs? Wine and Gold Talk podcast

Takeaways:

• Evan Mobley is emerging as one of the best players on the Cavs.
• Jarrett Allen’s selflessness is commendable for team dynamics.
• Lauri Markkanen’s evolution has made him a matchup nightmare.
• The Cavs can adjust their play style based on matchups.
• Kenny Atkinson prioritizes long-term success over short-term gains.
• Injury management is a focus for the coaching staff.
• The Cavs are positioning themselves for a deep playoff run.

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Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Ethan Sands

What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. And if you’re watching this and you are seeing us in the same outfits that we are wearing in the last episode, it’s because we’re recording a doozy for you all after the Utah Jazz game. is currently 1253 in the morning on Christmas Eve.

So we’re going to get into some things that we’ve seen over the first 30 games of the season and rehash one particular scenario that happened in the Utah Jazz game that I feel like could be pretty big for the Cavs going forward. Let’s start there. Chris, Evan Mobley, Jared Allen, for the first time this season, feels like, went up against another seven foot duo. Walker Kessler, Lowry Markinen for the Utah Jazz.

stand both at seven foot tall and they can play inside and out. Lowry marketing more so in outside than Walker Kessler, but they definitely pose a threat on the rebounding on the reach bounding aspect. Nonetheless, Walker Kessler came away with eight offensive rebounds, eight defensive rebounds, 16 rebounds total. And Evan Mobley was able to tally 10 rebounds. So was a battle on the inside, but the biggest thing

for this that I took away was in the second half and especially in the fourth quarter, Kenny Atkinson and the CAS coaching staff went away from Jared Allen, allowing for Evan Mobley to run the full time center position by himself and create an offensive weapon that allowed them to spread the floor, run a five out offense, something that we had talked about coming into the season, potentially being a part of their offense, but.

We didn’t know it would be to this extent. Evan Mobley hit three threes again on Monday night. And what do you think about the dynamic of being able to go away from the two big lineup and something that Kenny Atkinson said when he first got here that he would be able to make it work?

Chris (02:15.306)

has made it work. There are 26 and 4 and there are plenty of moments throughout the course of a game, late game situation, beginning of games, where Jared and Evan are out there together. There’s also times throughout the course of the game where it’s Jared solo or it’s Evan solo.

Those guys are surrounded by four shooters, four spacers. So I think the big thing with the Cavs and the thing that stands out to me about the Cavs, Ethan, that one of the things that makes them such a great team and a legitimate threat to win a championship is that.

They can play multiple ways. They can play big, can play small, they can play fast, they can play slow, they can win inside, they can win outside. And you’re going to need that in the postseason because every team calls for something different. Every matchup calls for something different. Friday night, the Cavs are going to need Jared Allen against Nicole Jokic. It’s just the way it is.

you know, against the Los Angeles Lakers, they’re going to need Jared Allen to deal with Anthony Davis. in a series potentially against the Philadelphia 76ers, they’ll need Jared Allen for Embiid. in a series against the Milwaukee Bucks, they’ll need Jared Allen. So I think it’s just Kenny showing his adaptability and whatever the situation calls for, whatever the opponent that the Cavs are playing against.

However, they’re going with their things and what they’re doing offensively, what they’re doing defensively. You have to be willing to adapt to those things in the game. You have to be willing to make adjustments and difficult decisions. And late in the game, Kenny Atkinson noticed that the Cavs offense needed a little bit more spacing. They needed to decongest the court.

Chris (04:05.698)

that Jazz were switching a lot of stuff and it just made it better for them to go with an extra shooter as opposed to an extra big in Jarrett. And I give Jarrett a lot of credit. Like this is one of their core players. This is a guy who is locked in on a long-term contract. This is a starter who is getting all-star consideration.

for him to be taken out of the game in the fourth quarter in the final three, four minutes and being on the bench supporting Evan Mobley and cheering on the team and being really happy and jovial in the locker room and stuff like that. We can sit here and we can say that it’s an easy thing and every player should act like that.

But these are human beings and they have emotions and they have pride and they have egos. And when you don’t have an opportunity, when you’re as important as Jared is, when you’ve been talked about as important as Jared’s been talked about, and you don’t get an opportunity to close games, like that’s not an easy thing.

for him to accept that and understand that and still be supportive of the team and still be the Jared Allen who is so important to this team, both on the court and off the court, behind the scenes as well. I think it speaks to his character. I think it speaks to the selflessness of this team, the sacrifice that these guys are willing to make for one another, but…

I don’t think it’s something that is going to be a consistent thing with the Cavs. I think it’s a situational thing. And I think you need to judge these things based on the situation. And I think you need to be willing to make moves and line up decisions based on the situation. Some situations are going to call for Jared and Evan together and other ones aren’t. And tonight was one that it was better for the Cavs to split those two guys up.

Ethan Sands (06:00.592)

Yeah, and it’s interesting because like you watch through the first half and then you watch through the second half and Evan and Jarrett weren’t playing that many split minutes as much as they’re used to, right? When you talk about the first half, their minutes were kind of comparable, right? Looking at the stats now, Jarrett Allen played 17 minutes and 32 seconds. Evan Mobley played 14 minutes and 14 seconds in the first half, right? So that is

You obviously those aren’t exact minutes for when they were on the court together. But I think it was interesting to see that when the Cavs were being so outclassed on the rebound aspect that Kenny Atkinson and his coaching staff decided to go with quote unquote less rebounding because you have a smaller player on the court and lean into something that they knew coming in.

was a weakness of theirs, was getting the guards involved on the boards and having them group rebound and all those different things. I think it was important for the guards to have the showing that they did in the second half when it comes to rebounding, getting on the glass. We talk about Emma Mobley having 10 rebounds. Jared Allen had six rebounds. Donna Mitchell had three rebounds. Darius Garland had three rebounds. Kara Silver had three rebounds. Max Struz, six rebounds.

Chris (07:21.976)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (07:25.732)

George Nyang, seven rebounds. And we talked about George Nyang on the last podcast a little bit about his impact. And I don’t think it goes unsaid that obviously you get more spacing with George Nyang and you lose a little bit of size, but the physicality that George showed on the boards, obviously there were a couple of times where he got called for over the backs or loose ball fouls and things of that nature. But the fact that he wasn’t backing down from those challenges against

Seven footers is definitely telling. The other thing, Chris and Morissa, what I want you to go in on is it looked like the Cavs were playing their old selves a little bit tonight in the Utah Jazz. A team that was so focused on defense, Colin Sexton, Larry Merkin, and Walker Kessler having the two big lineup play comparable minutes on their end. Walker Kessler ended up playing 38 minutes.

Lowy Mark and ended up playing around 32 minutes, right? So seeing them play with those two bigs and then what Jared Allen and Evan Mobley used to be doing with J.B. Bicker staff system. Is that a is that a change in the league that Kenny Atkinson has taken and ran with? Where do you think it’s a stylistic and a game plan thing that more so leans into what the Cavs were needing and could need in various matchups?

Chris (08:53.718)

I think it was situational, I do. I think oftentimes what’s available to you dictates the direction that you’re gonna go.

I mean, Utah didn’t have John Collins, so it kind of forced them to go a certain kind of way based on who was available and what was available. The Cavs didn’t have Isaac Ikoro. They didn’t have Dean Wade. There were times that they were playing Max Struce as their power forward in a small ball look when it wasn’t George Niang. So again, it’s about being adaptable and it’s about, you know,

going with what you think is going to work based on what the game calls for. And I think when it comes to Evan and Jarrett, like, part of what you were saying is exactly on point. The benefit of having Jarrett and Evan together is defense and it’s rebounding, right? But if you’re not gaining enough there, if you don’t think you’re getting an advantage in those two areas,

then go a different way. Like, if you’re not getting the advantage defensively or rebounding, what can you do to create an advantage? And the thing that the Cavs can do to create that advantage is downsize.

and space the floor and shoot a bunch of threes and put more shooting on the floor. When you put a lineup out there with five shooters, it’s going to make it easier on Donovan. It’s going to make it easier on Darius. It’s going to make it easier on everybody on the floor, especially if you’re sharing the ball and if you’re moving the ball and you’re playing with pace and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, this is about

Chris (10:32.008)

finding an advantage, this is about exploiting weaknesses, this is about playing to strengths and all that kind of stuff. And Kenny Atkinson does that really, really well. In saying all of that, I think we have to point this out. Jared Allen and Evan Mobley together have played 422 total minutes. With them on the floor, the Cavs have an offensive rating of 121, which would be the second best offense in the NBA.

And with them on the floor, they have a defensive rating of 108.7 and a net rating of 12.1. Like that is a dominant tandem.

That is more data. know, Kobe Altman, president of basketball operations always says there’s so much data that points to Jared and Evan working well together and Darius and Donovan working well together. And we go based off of the data and we go based off the eye test. Well, there’s some more data that points to Jared and Evan being dominant together. So if you can win the minutes with Jared and Evan together, and you can still win the minutes with one of them solo, then.

I mean, that’s just going to make the Cavs even more formidable and that’s going to make them more versatile. And that’s going to allow Kenny to make these decisions and make these decisions a little bit easier. But he said it. It was a tough decision. There was a debate on the bench. Do we stay with Jarrett or do we go away from him? They went away from him. It worked. They finished the game on a nine two round against Utah.

But if they’re in that situation again against Denver on Friday night, are they going to go the same way? I think it depends what Denver is doing. I think it depends who Denver has out there on the floor. think it depends stylistically how Denver is playing offensively and defensively. And you just go based on that. Go based on feel. That’s what the great coaches do.

Ethan Sands (12:25.316)

Right. And that’s exactly what the Cavs wanted to see improved on when they moved on from their previous coach. And we talked about it a lot last season. We talked about it a lot this summer when it comes to what the improvements needed to be made. And it was in-game adjustments as one of the biggest at the top of our board. And I think we’ve seen that a lot this year. Chris, obviously it is not realistic.

for the Cavs to make any move for allowing marketing to come back to the Cleveland Cavaliers. But to see him in his capacity now, I think this is his fourth game playing against the Cleveland Cavaliers in his tenure with Utah Jazz. And he’s now scored 20 points in all four of those contests. He had 26 tonight. He was six of 14 from three. I believe he had like

10 already by the time the third quarter was like not even halfway done. So

The growth of that kid, you got to see him play when he was in Cleveland. You’re to see him now. What have you seen from him in his time in Utah, but also the difference of when he was in Cleveland?

Chris (13:42.616)

First of all, I love Lauren Morgan and he is one of my favorite people that I have ever been around. He is just a genuinely good dude. And the Cavs did not want to trade him. They did not want to trade him. They didn’t have an intention of trading him.

But when an opportunity arises and you can get Donovan Mitchell and you can accelerate your rebuild and you can get one of the 10 to 15 best players in the NBA, you give up what it is within reason that you have to give up in order to get that kind of player. And of course the Jazz demanded Lowry. Of course they did. Look at him. This is why they demanded him. Because he is a matchup problem. And he’s the kind of guy who

Any contending team, when he can become available for a trade and he can’t until after this year’s trade deadline, he did that on purpose, the Jazz and him did that together on purpose, signing the contract the way that they did. When he becomes available, so many teams in the NBA, so many contenders in the NBA are going to be interested in him. Golden State, whoever it may be.

And rightfully so, he can play inside outside. He’s a seven footer who can shoot from the perimeter. He creates a lot of problems from a matchup standpoint. And when he was here with the Cavs, you know, they unlocked a different aspect of him by playing him full time at the small forward spot. And Jamie Biggerstaff deserves a ton of credit for being out in front of that. And just bucking trends and saying, you know, I don’t care if you don’t think it’s going to work. I don’t care.

If Chicago tried it, it failed and they completely went away from it. I think it can work here with our personnel, in our system, with this group of players. And it did. And if you think about the way that Utah has used him moving forward, it’s kind of the same way.

Chris (15:44.335)

Sometimes they’ll play him at the three and they’ll surround him with guys at the four and five that they think can protect him a little bit on the defensive end of the floor that can provide some rim protection that can, you know, hang around the paint and see if they can do the damage inside while he’s on the outside. But, you know, a seven footer that can pass, dribble and shoot.

that is athletic as Lowry is, that can hold his own on the defensive end of the floor and rebound as well as he can. That is a matchup problem. That’s the kind of player that teams are going to struggle defending, teams are going to struggle matching up with from a lineup construction standpoint. And like I said, the Cavs didn’t want to move on from Lowry, but when it comes down to it,

in order to get a great player, in order to get a superstar, it’s going to be painful. What you give up should be painful and will be painful. And to see his evolution into this, to me it’s not surprising because if you think about him coming into the NBA, early on in his career he was looked at as the next.

This was a guy who was great early on in his career, then he fell on some tough times in Chicago, didn’t really fit, was kind of thrown out of the rotation, no longer viewed as a core player, all that kind of stuff. And the Cavs kind of revived his career and he has taken that to a new level in Utah. And I’m happy for him because like I said, he’s just a genuinely great guy.

Ethan Sands (17:26.52)

And Chris, I I wrote this for our preview article today for the Jazz game. The matchup between Lowry and Evan Mobley was worth the price of admission at base level, right? Like it doesn’t matter if the Utah Jazz had won seven games or 30 games. Like the matchup between those two.

was worth coming to the game. And that’s partially why this game was as close as it was for majority of it. But Evan showed his growth as well, right? Evan Mobley ended the game with 22 points, 10 rebounds, four assists, three blocks, and a steal. And the most impressive thing for this may be that he had only two fouls in a game that saw him go up against two seven-footers that were trying to bang into him every chance that they could get.

So Evan Mobley’s evolution, and we’ve said this at an abundance on this podcast, like if you think that he has not arrived, I think you’re kidding yourself. You’re lying to yourself. Like he is an all-star. He is an all-star caliber player and it’s not a fluke, right? Like we talk about the shooting percentages that we feel like should come down for the Cavs, should come down for these players.

Chris (18:36.814)

Mmm.

Ethan Sands (18:54.394)

We’re 30 games into the season now, Chris. We’re a third of the way into the season. More than a third of the way, right? So I just think talking about Evan Mobley and his growth and what he was able to do not only against the Jazz, but what he’s showing against every team that they faced. I don’t care if you want to say that the opponent win percentage that the Cavs have played has been poor, lesser or whatever.

Chris (19:24.141)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (19:24.696)

Like Evan Mobley is coming night in and night out and showing who he is. And I think that’s exactly what the Cavs wanted and what they needed coming into the season. So now I have this question for you to end today’s podcast because I keep seeing it on social media and I feel like we have to bring it back to that. Is Evan Mobley the best player overall for the Cavs on two way, offensive and defensive for this Cavs team?

Chris (19:55.042)

don’t think they’re there yet. I think there’s a hope that they get there. I think there are signs that they are getting there and that Evan’s getting there and he understands what it takes to get there. But they’re still at a point, I think, where it’s Donovan Mitchell. And again, there’s more time throughout the course of this season for that to change.

Evan is making it a real conversation at least, which is a really good place to be because they needed him to take this kind of step. Ethan, he, I think he has a better chance of getting to the All-Star game than Darius Garland. I do. Just based on the number of guys that are blocking Darius, when you talk about the back court players in the Eastern Conference, you know, you’ve got Dame, you’ve got Jalen Brown, who’s often listed as a back court player.

Tyler Hero is having a great season for the Miami Heat. Trey Young has been awesome. Cade Cunningham is a walking triple double. You can sit there and you can say what you want to about Detroit’s record, 13 and 17 after tonight. But they’re in the play-in tournament mix and Cade Cunningham is a star.

So he’s going to get consideration. know, you’ve got Tyrese Maxey in Philly. You’ve got LaMelo Ball. Zach Levine’s had a really good year for the Chicago Bulls. So I’m not saying that these players are more deserving than Darius. We can have a detailed conversation about the merits of each one, but

the sheer volume of potential guards that stand in his way or that are going to get the same kind of All-Star consideration, it makes it a little bit tough. When you talk about the front court, what are people going to do with Embiid? I mean, he hasn’t played like an All-Star, he hasn’t been on the court this year. What are they going to do with Paolo? What are they going to do with Franz? You know what I mean? So like, there is a situation where

Chris (22:00.128)

Franz is basically eliminated, Paolo is basically eliminated, and B. is eliminated, and you’re looking at Cap, you’re looking at Tatum, you’re looking at Bam, Janus, obviously, but like it starts to get pretty thin after that, you know what I mean?

Like I guess you can sit there and say poor Zengas, but can you really? Because of the time that he’s missed this year, the minute restriction that he’s playing on. it’s just like, it feels like to me, the pathway for Evan based on the front court players that are standing in his way. Jalen Johnson’s interesting too, when it comes to Atlanta, because he’s been really, really good and he’s in the most improved player conversation. But the pathway for Evan.

it seems like there are fewer roadblocks. Whereas Darius, I think is gonna fight hard against one, narratives, two, the sheer depth at the position. And I was having a conversation with one of the members of the Cavs front office about this tonight.

He was asking me do you think we can realistically get three and I said I do not I do not I do not think it’s going to be Darius this year I think it’s going to be Evan this year and I think that shows you just how much Evan has evolved and that shows you just how close he is to being that guy that doesn’t take the torch from Donovan but like reaches something close to that level where he is

the man. I just don’t think they’re there yet.

Ethan Sands (23:47.16)

I just think it’s so interesting that one, one, you mentioned before the selflessness of this team, especially Jared Allen being willing to like help him along the way, showing him how to play defense or guard against some of these bigger centers, all those different things. The second selfless person is Donovan Mitchell because he is

willingly taking the spotlight and allowing Evan Mobley to kind of come into his own at his own pace at his own time and you’re seeing it now this season like Evan Mobley is ready for the media when we walk in that wasn’t happening to last year two years ago any of that right like this is a guy that is not only coming out of his shell on the court he’s dunking on people with his left hand he’s right-handed folks like

He is doing things that we have not seen from him, but he’s also off the court becoming the person that like he’s talking smack back to Darius and Donovan in the locker room as he’s walking out, like drinking his protein shake. That’s not, he would have just been, I’m like, like he did say this. He did say, I’m a let y’all do your thing. But like he still had a couple words back and forth before he went out of there. That’s not only a testament to the chemistry camaraderie, all those different things.

Chris (24:47.159)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (25:06.596)

But to be able to feel comfortable and confident in your own skin on a team that is trying to push you at the same time to be somebody that you don’t know that you are yet, but are finding out in real time. That is something that you cannot do unless you have the support of everybody around you. And I think like LeBron James has been trying to do with Anthony Davis for the last however many years, and I said this earlier on in the season,

Donovan Mitchell was trying to hand over the reins to Evan Mobley, and he’s just waiting for him to be ready to grasp them and take them himself.

Chris (25:47.256)

We’ve talked about this before, Ethan, the series against Boston was an eye opener to Donovan. It was an eye opener to everybody in the organization. I think it was an eye opener to Evan. I think that was really, really important for his development. And that’s why, you know, the Cavs want these young players and winning environments. It’s why the Cavs want these young players in meaningful games and pressure moments and stuff like that.

because they get an opportunity to see how they’re going to handle it, but the players themselves, they get an opportunity to feel like, do I belong? Do I not belong? What kinds of things do I have to do to take my game to the next level? You’ve learned those things in the crucible of the playoffs.

And I think Evan learned a lot from, the playoff series against Orlando and the playoff series against Boston. And he came back a different player and yeah, a big part of it is a big picture plan to unlock Evan. And the way that Kenny Atkinson has used him, has been very different and it’s made Evan more comfortable. but Donovan saw something in Evan that, made him feel as if Evan was ready to be empowered. You know what I mean? And I think that was important.

Like, you’re not going to give the guy the platform, you’re not going to take a step back and elevate that guy if you don’t feel like he’s ready for that.

And I asked Donovan about this earlier this year in a conversation that we had following a shoot around. said, have you gone to Evan and said, this is your team? I asked Donovan. said, have you gone to him and said, this is your team now? And he said, not in those words. I’ve not done it in those words, but I have tried other ways that I feel are important to make him feel empowered.

Chris (27:40.032)

and make him understand his importance to our success, both in the short term and in the long term. And I do think that that has resonated with Evan. When you have a guy like Donovan Mitchell, who has accomplished all the things that he has accomplished, that has the status that he has throughout the course of the NBA, when you have that guy…

you know, taking a step back willingly so that you can take a step forward. That resonates with you. That’s meaningful to a player like Evan. And you just see him playing with a level of confidence that’s different. You see him playing with a level of comfort that is different. You see him playing with a level of passion and aggressiveness and all that stuff that’s different. Like you don’t sense that Evan is looking at situations, whether it’s late game, whether it’s beginning of the game, saying,

Like almost having a thought running through his head of Is this the right thing for the team? Should I be the one that’s taking the shot? I mean Donovan’s over there Darius is over there. We got Jarrett too Like me taking a 15 footer me taking the three foot like there’s a level of decisiveness that he’s playing with Like yeah, he’s still trying to make the right play because that’s you know

how he’s been raised, that’s how he’s been coached. But like there isn’t that nagging thought in the back of his mind thinking that a bunch of other options are better than him taking a shot. I think he understands that him taking a shot, him attacking the basket, him taking a pull-up three even, him taking a catch and shoot three is one of the best options for the Cavs.

And I just don’t know that he thought like that all throughout last season.

Ethan Sands (29:32.954)

And Chris, I mean, we talk about the shot profile and all that is good and well and important, but against the Utah Jazz specifically, Evan Mobley brought up the ball at least four or five times. And there was, I think, at least one time in the beginning of the game where he tried to give it off to either Donovan or Darius and they just threw it back at him. And we’re like, do it yourself. Like, take it up. Like you have a mismatch, whatever the conversation might have been, but.

Chris (29:55.692)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (30:02.892)

It wasn’t a verbal conversation. It was a physical, here it is, this is you, you go do your thing. And then Evan was like, okay, I’m just not even going to ask or question it anymore and take it up myself and attack mismatches. And that creates opportunities on the offensive end for the Cavs. And we’ve seen it, we know it. That is proof in the pudding, Chris. Like just plain and simple. But we will get into this more.

Chris (30:11.019)

Mm.

Ethan Sands (30:31.126)

as the season goes along, as we see Evan Mobley’s growth continue and see if he continues to get out of his shell and move away from second guessing himself or any decision that he might make. Because as Chris said, at an abundance last year, and it was kind of engraved in my head, Evan Mobley wants to make the perfect play. He wants to make the perfect play every time down the floor. And

I think it’s getting to the point where the perfect play might be the play where Evan Mobley has the ball in his hands.

Chris (31:04.93)

I think it all started when Evan showed up to media day with a full bushy man beard. He just looked like a different person. I swear, like, he grew up overnight, basically. I really think like…

Ethan Sands (31:15.864)

The chin strap, man, it was, yeah.

Chris (31:22.498)

that Boston series did wonders for him as a player. And I don’t know that he’s the player that he is today without that experience in that series and without having to be the guy because Jarrett wasn’t around for that. So as tough as it was for the Cavs to play that kind of way in so many playoff games without Jarrett, like that gave Evan a platform to shine.

that gave him an opportunity to show this franchise and show his teammates, including Donovan Mitchell, that like he’s ready. He’s ready. And then he showed up to media day with this man beard. And I was like, okay. No more baby faced assassin here.

Ethan Sands (32:04.442)

Cause he was growing it out last year, but it wasn’t to the point where, no, it never got to that point. Like it wasn’t even like he had shaved it or whatever. Like it was still growing in. Like it, like, I like that analogy. Like he grew into himself and it showed up in the beard. But Chris, I know we want to get out of here. The last thing I want from you, because I know you have the insider information, Dean Wade did not play.

Chris (32:07.542)

It wasn’t this. No, it was not this.

Chris (32:14.222)

you

Chris (32:17.73)

Yeah.

Ethan Sands (32:29.644)

on Monday against the Utah Jazz. This episode will air on Thursday. So thinking ahead, what is the insight that you have for us about Dean Wade’s knee soreness injury, how that came about, and whether or not you think he’ll be ready for the West Coast trip?

Chris (32:47.596)

The plan is for him to play Friday against Denver. He went knee to knee with a member of the 76ers in Saturday’s game. And it was just like persistent nagging pain in his knee after that game and in the days leading into Monday night against the Jazz. And…

The one thing that we have learned about Kenny Atkinson, the many things that we have learned about Kenny Atkinson actually, but one of them that stands out is he is going to err on the side of caution when it comes to injuries. And there is a big picture thing. He has like a big picture mentality with a lot of stuff. He has brought up the playoffs.

more than any coach that I can remember in the first 30 games about, how’s this going to look in the playoffs? Ooh, I like this because we’re going to see this in the playoffs. Like, yeah, he’s focused on the game itself, the Jazz Monday, the Nuggets on Friday, but like, way near the front of his mind is…

How does this fit us in the playoffs? Or how does this make us better for the playoffs?

or what kinds of things should I be thinking about doing from a strategic standpoint when we get to the playoffs? And part of that is the way that the Cavs handle injuries during the regular season, the way that the Cavs are probably going to handle back to backs as the season goes on and three games and four nights and rest opportunities and all that kind of stuff. But when it comes to Dean, know, his knee was feeling a little bit achy.

Chris (34:31.838)

He told members of the organization that and Kenny basically said, all right, cool, sit. Like we’re going to be cautious. we’re not going to push anybody when it comes to injuries and, the schedule also played into this decision.

play Monday, off Tuesday, off Wednesday, off Thursday, don’t play again until Friday. That’s extended recovery time. That’s more time off of the knee. So nothing serious, nothing major. The belief is that he’s going to be ready to go on Friday. And if he’s not playing Friday against Denver, it will be a surprise.

Ethan Sands (35:15.704)

And Chris, Kenny Atkinson has mentioned how many times that the media has made him aware of the streaks and everything that has happened in this already historic season because his mind is not on the games that they’ve already won. It’s on the future and the playoffs that are to come and how the Cavs will be able to be prepared for those games. And I think they’re erring on the side of caution now. So when those

days do come and there’s a understanding that if you can play, you will play. And if you can’t play, you won’t play. there’s other people that know that they can step up and have a different role in various scenarios in various situations. But with that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the wine and gold talk podcast. But remember to become a cows insider and interact with Chris me.

and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. I know you guys missed out on the Hey Chris episode this week and are hungry to send in your questions. So we will start next week’s podcast after this weekend’s couple of games with a Hey Chris episode. So send in your questions, but you can only do so by signing up for a 14 day free trial or visiting cleveland.com/cavs and clicking on the blue bar at the top of the page.

If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy. But we can tell you that the people who signed up, stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast. It’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’all be safe. We out.