Tag: Lies

SPOILER ALERT: This story contains spoilers for Season 2, Episode 1 of “Severance,” streaming now on Apple TV+.

The Season 1 finale of “Severance” left audiences with a cruel, spectacular cliffhanger. 

The innies — that is, the versions of Mark (Adam Scott), Helly (Britt Lower), Dylan (Zach Cherry) and Irving (John Turturro) that exist only at work — found a way to break out of the confines of Lumon. Using the Overtime Contingency, they woke up in the outside world, in their outies’ bodies, and discovered shocking truths about who they are outside of work. Irving is investigating the shady company, Helly is the daughter of the CEO, and Mark has just found out his dead wife, Gemma (Dichen Lachman), might not be dead after all — she is his severed Lumon colleague, Ms. Casey. Just as he runs into the living room screaming “She’s alive!,” the Overtime Contingency ends, and the innies are zapped back into outies.

Three years later, viewers can finally feast on the Season 2 premiere. But instead of picking up right where the Season 1 finale left off, showing the immediate aftermath of the innie rebellion, the premiere episode, “Hello Ms. Cobel,” starts with a time jump (sort of). It kicks off with Mark’s first day back at the office, meaning some time has passed in the real world, but not for the innies. The outie world can wait — this entire episode takes place inside Lumon.

“I had always wanted to do an episode like this, where it was all innie or all outie. It’s more true to the subjective experience of the characters,” creator and showrunner Dan Erickson tells Variety. 

The outies will surely have their own aftermath to be explored in future episodes. But Erickson delights in making viewers wait just a little while longer. 

“Viewers are dying to know what happens on the outside,” he says. “So, I will confess that we had a little bit of fun playing with that tension and drawing it out.”

Below, Erickson breaks down the Season 2 premiere of “Severance,” that viral Grand Central marketing stunt and whether he has a grand plan for how to answer all of his series’ mysteries. 

The season begins with Innie Mark running to find Ms. Casey. What is Innie Mark’s relationship to her? Is he more interested in finding her because she is Gemma, his outie’s wife, or because he knows her as Ms. Casey, the former wellness director, and he fears she might be in danger?

I think it’s both. He feels a sense of responsibility to his outie to try to help this woman. Even if he doesn’t have a strong connection, romantic or otherwise, with Ms. Casey, he is aware that in another part of his life she is extremely meaningful to him. Part of the journey he’s on this season is his relationship to his outie, and what he feels he owes his outie. There is also a growing camaraderie between the innies, and like Helly says in the first episode: “I don’t really care about your marriage outside of here, because that’s not our world. But Ms. Casey is one of us, and so I’ll help you find her.”

How are we meant to interpret Helly lying about what she saw on the outside?

All of the characters were rattled by what they saw, in one way or another. And each of them has to make a decision when they come back as to how much of that they are willing or ready to share. Helly made the most horrifying discovery that she could have made — because she is, it turns out, what she hates the most. There’s a lot of shame that comes with that, and there is a concern that she won’t be accepted by her friends. She knows they all vilify the Eagans, and she is one. She doesn’t want to have to take on that baggage.

Can you explain the time difference between seasons? Milchick says it has been five months since the events in the finale, and that they’ve tried for weeks to get Mark’s team back. Obviously, this is the innies’ first day back at Lumon since the Season 1 finale.

Something that is always present on the show is the relationship of time between the innies and outies. You can never be totally sure how much time has passed, and you have to trust the company and hope they’re being honest with you. As we’ve seen before, Lumon often is not honest.

Talk about Ms. Huang — when did you realize you wanted a child manager at Lumon, and how did you cast the part?

We always thought it would be really strange and funny to have a child in a management role. Lumon is always trying to present itself as the good guy, and it’s awfully hard to hate a child. It’s certainly hard to hate that particular kid, who is played by this amazing actor, Sarah Bock. It throws the innies off their game, because there’s almost this intrinsic desire to protect this person, even though she is on the team of the oppressors. For the casting, we read a lot of interesting young actors for the role. But when we found Sarah, she was just so good at the smiling corporate thing, and she felt authentically like a piece of that world. There’s this thing with Ms. Huang — when you cross her, something dark opens up, and there’s this scary thing behind the eyes that you suddenly see coming from this seemingly nice person. When we shot one of the scenes, Ben Stiller yelled cut, and we were all like, “Whoa… what was that? Why are we suddenly scared of this kid?”

What is the status of Patricia Arquette’s character, Ms. Cobel, at Lumon as of now? In the Season 1 finale, she was fired but then showed up at the Eagan gala. She is notably missing from the office.

That’s one of a number of things that we are wondering along with the innies. They have a lot of questions, and they’re wondering what they can and can’t trust, in terms of information from Lumon. I don’t want to get into spoiling too much, but there has been an upheaval of the hierarchy of Lumon among the management team.

How do you view Tramell Tillman’s character, Mr. Milchick, who has replaced her — and what are his ambitions? Is he motivated by money?

We’ve intentionally withheld some elements of his personal life, his backstory and what’s important to him. The mystery of him is interesting. But I think it’s self-evident from the way he acts in Season 1 and in Season 2 that he’s a company man. He’s a loyalist and an idealist, in a way. He’s somebody who believes in Lumon, but thinks it can be better. He’s excited about the opportunity to pursue those reforms.

Why do the innies come back to work after all that’s happened? In Season 1 they’re talking about being prisoners. Now, they’ve been given the chance to leave voluntarily.

There are a lot of ways to interpret that, but one thing that is built into the conceit of the show is that, for the innies, the choice is work or nonexistence. Quitting would effectively end their lives. So they have to decide if continuing to exist is worth working for his company and giving themselves over to them.

After showing them the propaganda video, Milchick tells the innies that the Severed Floor has no cameras or microphones. Is this not a blatant lie? The video features direct quotes from the innies that they said in privacy. And the security room, which they’ve accessed, has camera feeds.

There are two ways to interpret that moment. There is something about being in a position of power where you can lie to somebody’s face and there is nothing they can do about it. They can call you out on it, but at the end of the day, management is going to win every argument. Having said that, Helly notes earlier in the episode that the security camera in MDR is gone. So, there is an intentional vagueness to the way Milchick phrases that. It’s almost like he is tempting them to call him out. At the same time, the line could be read as, “There are no longer cameras on the floor.” He’s intentionally being ambiguous.

How do you reconcile the innies’ in-office rebellions and plotting with the extreme surveillance of Lumon? Does Lumon know about everything that happens inside of the office? Is it possible that they knew about the Overtime Contingency plan and let it happen?

Just because there’s a camera doesn’t mean there is somebody watching you in real time on the other side. My view has always been that Lumon security can look whenever they want, but that doesn’t mean that they always are. Trying to put myself in the headspace of an innie, it’s like: How do you slip these conversations in as casually as possible so that you’re not drawing the Eye of Sauron, or the Eye of Lumon, as it were.

At the end of the episode, as Mark is sorting data, we see a flash of Gemma’s face on the computer screen. It seems to imply that Mark’s work — the Cold Harbor project — has something to do with her.

We’re withholding some of what’s going on, but that does seem to be the implication, that there is some kind of connection between the work that’s being done and whatever is going on with her.

It also seems like the first hint that the work the innies are doing is actually meaningful.

I can neither confirm nor deny anything, but it would certainly seem to be pushing us that way.

At the end of Season 1, Irving’s innie discovers that his outie has been painting the hallway to the Testing Floor over and over again. What are we supposed to make of that, considering his character has never been down there, at least consciously?

If I were his innie, that would feel like an invitation or a beckoning, like maybe this is a place you should keep your eye on.

When you ended Season 1 on that brutal cliffhanger, did you know back then how you would resolve some of the lingering questions?

We knew most of the big stuff. There’s a tricky balance to hit between over-planning and under-planning. If you’re going to set-up a big, intriguing tease like that without having a plan for the answer, you do that at your own peril. I’m very aware of not wanting to disappoint people, so the more of a light I hang on a mystery, the more I feel like I should have a good answer to it, lest I totally embarrass myself.

How much of the show is mapped out? Is there an outline for Season 3?

There is an endpoint for the series as a whole, and we know more or less how many seasons we are going to do, although that’s not totally solidified. For Season 3, a lot is mapped out, but a lot could still change.

Can you assure fans that the wait time between seasons will not be as long?

I’d like to, although I didn’t think it would be three years for Season 2. We had COVID delays for Season 1 and strikes in Season 2, so I dare not speculate what’s going to happen for Season 3. In terms of the process of it, we’re always looking to streamline it. The further we get along in the show, the more has been solidified. As we’re starting to think about Season 3, it’s a lot less blue-sky coming up with stuff than it was for Season 2. What’s already happened on screen has given us a clearer path forward. I do think the process is going to be faster, but now I’m looking for some wood to knock on.

Can you promise there will be answers to all of the questions you pose in the show? In other words, that “Severance” will not turn into “Lost”?

I promise the show will not literally turn into “Lost.” We won’t put them on an island and have Sawyer show up. No — we’re very conscious of that fact that we need to know where we’re going, and we need to reward people’s patience and faith. In Season 2, there are some fairly concrete answers to some of the most commonly asked questions. But for the most part, they open the door to bigger mysteries that’ll ultimately lead to the big alpha thing at the end.

There’s a popular fan theory that ties Lumon with water. The logo is a water drop, all of the files share names with bodies of water, there is a painting of Kier Eagan overlooking the lakes… Should we be focusing on the significance of water in the series, or this theory completely off base?

Oh, boy. I don’t know that any theory is completely off base. Water is a pretty common thing — it’s all over the place. There may be instances where that is intentional, and there may be some instances where it’s just water. It’s a cool theory. I’ve read that theory, and I like it.

How often do you read fan theories? I imagine that might be tricky for you.

I’ve kind of stopped, which is a shame because I like reading fan theories. It’s fun, and it makes me feel like I’m part of a community. I had to stop because I see how invested some people get in their version of the story, and oftentimes I’m really impressed by it. I wish we could do all of these different versions. But then I get in my head, and I have to step back and remember that we’ve got our version of it that we’ve been excited about for years.

Speaking of fans being invested, I came across a “Severance Wiki” page titled “Subtle Inconsistencies,” where fans have pointed out the most minor continuity errors — which would exist in any TV show. For example, the receptionist’s pen has moved over a centimeter from scene to scene. But for “Severance,” these fans create artistic justifications for them, like: “It is possible that this was done on purpose to illustrate a severed person’s damaged perception of time.” When you have legions of fans who are so obsessed with the show that they are noticing stuff like this, how does that make you feel? Does it increase the pressure of making it?

Yeah, it does! You always want to match people’s enthusiasm by making the show that much better. It’s always a little stressful to be watched that closely. That said, the fact that people are coming up with in-world justifications for it speaks to how passionately people care about the show. If somebody wants to correct something that I did and have a theory that makes it more perfect, then I won’t argue with that.

The viral marketing stunt at Grand Central — whose idea was that, and how did you pull it off?

I think it came from Apple. They pitched the idea to us, and at one point we were talking about having it just be the other actors. But Ben Stiller and Adam Scott were both really adamant that we get the real cast in there too. Then we had conversations behind the scenes: Where exactly in the continuity of the show does this take place? Is it canon? Do the events that take place in the cube take place in the show? If so, where do they fit?

Where did you land on that?

We decided that it’s all canon. But the thing is: People couldn’t hear what the actors were saying. I don’t even know what the actors were saying. But Britt Lower and I came up with an idea, but I’m going to keep that one close to the vest. And, by the way, the different groups of actors — there’s a question as to whether that’s canon, too. And if so, where and when the hell is that taking place?

Other branches, perhaps?

Perhaps.

It was sort of meta to see them in the cube with a bunch of people outside filming them, treating them like zoo animals.

There’s a meta element with regard to surveillance, and there’s a meta element about it being a TV show. The show literally does have invisible people watching the characters, who the characters aren’t aware of. We are voyeuristically lurking in on these people. I love the photos where you can see through the cube. You see the characters, and then you see this crowd of people gawking at them. It’s really chilling, and it reminds me of the weirdness of being a viewer on a show like this. 

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.